Big hype on small worlds. (was Re: Dijjer and Freenet (RE: [p2p-hackers] clustering))

Lemon Obrien lemonobrien at yahoo.com
Mon Mar 20 22:30:01 UTC 2006


>> computers aren't people;
   
  yeah...but people make them; design software for them; and use them...and without them; their would be no need for them.
   
  >>information travels fastest down the shortest fiber link with
the smallest number of hops
   
  you may find this may not always be the case either; especially with streams of data. or types of data where delivery may be the most important need. You looking at the problem from the point of view where your environment is 'pure' and simple. Look at TCP...between every node the reciever send an 'awk'...why? cause it was designed that way...and designed to adapt....but also designed from the sender's point of view. If you design from the perspective of the receiever...then the protocol will be totally different.
   
  your perspective shapes your math...as also being human.

Bob Harris <bob.harris.spamcontrol at gmail.com> wrote:
  Hi Lemon,

>it will ultimateley be determined by ones
> view of the world. and science is a view...

This argument leads to sophism, where every idea (think intelligent
design) is as worthy and good as every other. That's false :-). At
least, in the reality-based community.

>for example...i believe in the
> passive approach...and my protocols reflect that...and if you know small
> world theory; this could be called the 'weak' connection....which if you
> know anything about human and social behavior, is the one where information
> travels most efficiently.

I guess none of us know anything about human and social behavior; we
all thought information travels fastest down the shortest fiber link with
the smallest number of hops.

Frankly, a lot of small world hype relies on hand-wavy allusions to
social behavior. Well, computers aren't people; they can be very
efficient when
misapplied analogies do not get in the way.

Bob.




>
>
>
>
> Daniel Brookshier wrote:
> I'll chime in. In the P2P world, O(log^2 N) may not be efficient, but
> it may be the cheapest in terms of resources. For instance, a walker
> may take a while to find a resource in a small world topology, but it
> expends little effort at each node. Conversely, to attain fewer hops,
> that also means a larger resource at each node to index and process
> the index queries. There are also ways to use the hubs in such
> networks to greatly improve efficiency.
>
> The small world is also not necessarily the complete network or only
> topology available to an application. The number of hops in a search
> is not the same as a the number of hops that may be applied to
> communications. Thus even when one part is inefficient, the other may
> be ideal.
>
> On Mar 20, 2006, at 2:42 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:
>
> > On 20 Mar 2006, at 12:11, Bob Harris wrote:
> >> There is a lot of hype around small world networks. They have
> >> a catchy name. And they are easy to code up. But they have terrible
> >> performance.
> >
> > It is rather courageous (or perhaps simply foolish) of you to
> > dismiss an entire avenue of study so cavalierly, time will tell
> > whether you are right.
> >
> >> Who wants O(log^2 N) performance?
> >
> > It has already been pointed out that actual route lengths are far
> > more important than the order of the route lengths in practical
> > networks. It has also been pointed out that O(log^2 N) performance
> > presumes a fixed routing table size, where in most if not all
> > practical deployments, routing table sizes are increased with the
> > size of the network.
> >
> >> Did I really see simulations talking about 40+ hops?
> >
> > You might have, but I can't recall any such simulations mentioned
> > in this thread.
> >
> > Ian.
> >
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> You don't get no juice unless you squeeze
> Lemon Obrien, the Third.
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You don't get no juice unless you squeeze
Lemon Obrien, the Third.
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