[p2p-hackers] Re: scalability

[Serguei Osokine]

On Friday, December 02, 2005 Sam Berlin wrote:
> It'd likely be a fascinating subject for researchers to study & write
> papers on.  I know I'd be interested.

	Yeah, well, O'Reilly wasn't :-)

	I submitted a proposal to the ETC two or three years ago, where 
I was going to talk about Gnutella being the first P2P network that 
is not only deployed and developed, but is also *designed* in a fully
decentralized fashion. Like you say, basically - there is some common
protocol framework, but within this framework vendors are free to 
develop, publish, and deploy their own protocol extensions, and to 
implement only those extensions of the others that they like. 

	Survival of the fittest proposals in the field, so to speak. 
Design without an architectural committee, voting, or any kind of 
central authority or even consensus on half of the issues. This is
a first and only example of such development, as far as I know. But
for some reason O'Reilly was not impressed. Though I'm not much of 
a speaker in any case :-)

	Best wishes -
	S.Osokine.
	2 Nov 2005.
	

-----Original Message-----
From: p2p-hackers-bounces at zgp.org [mailto:p2p-hackers-bounces at zgp.org]On
Behalf Of Sam Berlin
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 1:12 PM
To: Bryan Turner; Peer-to-peer development.
Subject: Re: [p2p-hackers] Re: scalability


The protocol, as described nearly anywhere, isn't Gnutella.  Gnutella,
as others have said, really isn't a protocol (0.6 or any number)
anymore.  It's a hodgepodge of a lot of features, all implemented by
various Gnutella clients.  Partial file sharing has been in use by
mainstream clients for around 1-2 years.

As Greg mentioned, academic papers tend to describe Gnutella as it was
designed by Justin Frankel, and a few will include the addition of
ultrapeers.  It's nearly impossible to find a paper that accurately
describes the current state of the network  (as it exists through
mainstream clients) though.

It'd likely be a fascinating subject for researchers to study & write
papers on.  I know I'd be interested.

Sam

On 12/2/05, Bryan Turner <bryan.turner at pobox.com> wrote:
>        Ah, this is news to me :)  Thanks for the link.  I notice that this
> partial file transfer feature is only a footnote on the main protocol..
How
> wide spread is the partial file transfer feature among clients?
>
> --Bryan
> bryan.turner at pobox.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: p2p-hackers-bounces at zgp.org [mailto:p2p-hackers-bounces at zgp.org] On
> Behalf Of Daniel Stutzbach
> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 3:22 PM
> To: 'Peer-to-peer development.'
> Subject: Re: [p2p-hackers] Re: scalability
>
> On Fri, Dec 02, 2005 at 03:15:45PM -0500, Bryan Turner wrote:
> > Gnutella (I believe) doesn't meet #2,3 and partially #4,5:
> >       #2 because it does not cluster related data it will eventually
> >               be overwhelmed with content.
> >       #3 because it performs full-file transfers instead of block
> >               exchanges or partial file transfers
> >       #4/5 because clients don't immediately offer partial downloads,
> >               thus hot spots have a congestion delay measured in
> >               full-file-transfer increments rather than in block
> >               increments (an order of 2 for typical MP3s, easily
> >               reaching multiple days of congestion).
>
> If I am not mistaken, Gnutella has been doing partial file transfers for
two
> or three years now.  The eDonkey/eMule network does this too.
>
> BitTorrent does not have a monopoly on this feature. :-)
>
> The relevant spec (if it can be called a spec) for Gnutella is here:
>
> http://www.the-gdf.org/wiki/index.php?title=Partial_File_Sharing_Protocol
>
> --
> Daniel Stutzbach                           Computer Science Ph.D Student
> http://www.barsoom.org/~agthorr                     University of Oregon
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