[linux-elitists] How about a fork of Jessie without systemd?

Ruben Safir ruben at mrbrklyn.com
Thu May 19 07:23:53 PDT 2016

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 07:37:49AM -0700, Greg KH wrote:
> On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 04:17:56AM -0400, Ruben Safir wrote:
> > On 05/16/2016 07:18 PM, Greg KH wrote:
> > > Not just his, many others, including myself.
> > > 
> > > And that's a very good thing
> > 
> > And that is the summation of the reason why you are having such a
> > violent reaction against it from the community.
> Nope, no reaction anymore, only from the crazies like yourself, everyone
> else has realized there is no problem here :)
> You have yet to give any _technical_ reason why systemd is bad, ranting
> about control and conspiracy things is fun and all, but really, not
> something you should actually take seriously.  So while this has been a
> fun thread to see you go crazy on, I think I'm going to bow out for now
> until you post anything based on facts.

A few closing remarks on this.  I have given numerous very specfic
technical problems with this, but as usual with systemd proponents, your
ability to discern what you don't want to hear is non-existant.

What you want to here is that there is a bug with this or that, I'm telling
you I don't like the design.  That is a technical answer.  I'm specifically
telling you what in the design I don't like, which includes its top down control
of the system, its binary journals, its absorption of services which are not
part of the traditional init system, its derooting of X11, its monitoring
of sockets, its nondependency on the shell to make things work, 
its interference with gtty processes and the login function, and its absorption and adoption of dbus.

Which part of this technical conversation is not being followed now, and I
can try to answer in more detail, althogh your not listening so I doubt it is
worth it.

Now, addressing the issue of conspriacy theory, I'm frankly disapoint in you,
talk to older and more experienced individuals like this.  You owe me an
apology.  As someone who has listened to countless conspiracy thearies
about Jews and Banking and Finance and Control, of even control of Linux,
after all GNU is a Jewish organization, and how Israel was a conspirer in
9-11, which I lost many firends in, I am deeply and personally insulted by
this off the wall derogatory comment by you.

If we can not poperly note that Systemd is designed to make all the 
linux distros look and act the same, without stating this is a form of
top down control, withouth you snarely about conspiracy theories, then I
under estimated your moral compass.  You have none then.  It is not I, young
man, who is hopping around on bean bags and oversized rubber balls, dressed
like King Friday from Mr Rogers Neighborhood, promoting the invincibility
of systemd as the universal solution for all things Linux.

~~that was you.

Now to address another area, the need for you to control 5000 computers at the
same time means nothing to me.  Applications for systemd for cloud computing
is another thing I couldn't care less about.  So stop referencing this as if
it is some benifit, because its not.  It mioght be a benifit of a very small
segment of professional sys admins, but that vast rest of us couldn't care less.
That being said, we controlled the entire stock market with the korn shell and 
BSD style init, so it defies me what problem you have.  On the other hand
I don't care.  I do care that a whole pool of system development and control
tools have been removed from my hands with system.

I also mention as a techincal fact that counselkit is SLOW to respond and is
messing up terminal access, forget display settings for X11 etc.

I also mentioned that Systemd make for one large monolithic hacking target
and creates a great security risk.  I'm sure Leornard Potterings coding
can never be exploited, because we all see what a great coder he is.

Now one for Nick.  I don't use debian.  I don't know what they do sometimes.
I see a complity in there start up scripts with is crazy.  I suggest you try

 /usr/local/apache/bin/apachectl restart

When init scripts get to complex, I tend to just rip them out and rewrite them
to my specific needs.


> Have fun!
> greg k-h
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