[linux-elitists] How about a fork of Jessie without systemd?

/dev/rob0 list+elite at nodns4.us
Mon May 16 09:46:27 PDT 2016

On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 11:29:29AM -0700, Greg KH wrote:
> On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 12:35:54AM -0700, Ed Carp wrote:
> > I'm certainly not going to dignify this personal attack by 
> > responding,
> Yet you did :)
> And it wasn't "personal" at all, please go re-read it again.


Ed, I completely agree with Greg here (about the "attack", not 
necessarily about systemd.)  Fragile feelings and weak egos on 
mailing lists like this make for a toxic environment and lead to 
greater difficulties in communication.

Even if it WAS an attack, so what?  Be mature and responsible, just 
stick to the issues.  Whining about personal attacks is every bit as 
unbecoming as are the attacks.

> > And if you get off attacking people for expressing their opinion,
> > I guess you *do* have a problem.
> You said a number of things that aren't true (unix way and all 
> that) and I protested that statement, not anything specifically 
> about you at all.

Indeed, a case of PKB.

> You were objecting to the work that I, and people I personally 
> trust, have done and have given to you and the world for free.  You 
> feel that somehow we are doing it just because we wanted to make 
> _your_ life more miserable.  Did we force you to use systemd?  No, 
> the vendor _you_ trust made that decision, perhaps you shouldn't 
> trust that vendor and move to a different one.

Nevertheless, systemd is making it difficult for GNU/Linux 
distributors to continue without systemd.  You [Greg] mentioned 
Slackware upthread, and I know that Slackware is feeling the pinch.
I'm sure that's directly related to the unusually long time we're 
seeing since the previous Slackware release.

> You have choices, no one is _forcing_ you to use Linux, least of 
> all the developers who write it.
> The BSDs are great, they need all the users they can get, and Linux
> needs the competition, please move to them if you really like the
> old-style init system.

Right, this might be the way forward for us.  I like Linux for my 
laptops & desktops because of the excellent hardware support, and 
mostly ... just because.  Inertia.  I've been in GNU/Linux a very 
long time.  I know it well.

> And again people, this is linux-elitists, how "elite" are you if 
> you complain about having to learn a new tool?

Yes, I can learn *BSD if I choose to do it, and I already have some
insight into non-GNU implementations of various tools.  I'd rather 
stay with Linux, but you're quite right, no one is forcing me to 

That said, I'm not as vehemently opposed to systemd on end-user 
machines, so I might stay with Linux laptops and move to a BSD for 
other uses.

Also, I can't deny the good points Greg has made, because I'm a mere 
admin/enduser.  I am fairly familiar with the cruft that comprises 
Slackware init scripts, so I am sure that Better Ways exist.

> bah humbug,

More information about the linux-elitists mailing list