[linux-elitists] How about a fork of Jessie without systemd?
list+elite at nodns4.us
Mon May 16 09:46:27 PDT 2016
On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 11:29:29AM -0700, Greg KH wrote:
> On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 12:35:54AM -0700, Ed Carp wrote:
> > I'm certainly not going to dignify this personal attack by
> > responding,
> Yet you did :)
> And it wasn't "personal" at all, please go re-read it again.
Ed, I completely agree with Greg here (about the "attack", not
necessarily about systemd.) Fragile feelings and weak egos on
mailing lists like this make for a toxic environment and lead to
greater difficulties in communication.
Even if it WAS an attack, so what? Be mature and responsible, just
stick to the issues. Whining about personal attacks is every bit as
unbecoming as are the attacks.
> > And if you get off attacking people for expressing their opinion,
> > I guess you *do* have a problem.
> You said a number of things that aren't true (unix way and all
> that) and I protested that statement, not anything specifically
> about you at all.
Indeed, a case of PKB.
> You were objecting to the work that I, and people I personally
> trust, have done and have given to you and the world for free. You
> feel that somehow we are doing it just because we wanted to make
> _your_ life more miserable. Did we force you to use systemd? No,
> the vendor _you_ trust made that decision, perhaps you shouldn't
> trust that vendor and move to a different one.
Nevertheless, systemd is making it difficult for GNU/Linux
distributors to continue without systemd. You [Greg] mentioned
Slackware upthread, and I know that Slackware is feeling the pinch.
I'm sure that's directly related to the unusually long time we're
seeing since the previous Slackware release.
> You have choices, no one is _forcing_ you to use Linux, least of
> all the developers who write it.
> The BSDs are great, they need all the users they can get, and Linux
> needs the competition, please move to them if you really like the
> old-style init system.
Right, this might be the way forward for us. I like Linux for my
laptops & desktops because of the excellent hardware support, and
mostly ... just because. Inertia. I've been in GNU/Linux a very
long time. I know it well.
> And again people, this is linux-elitists, how "elite" are you if
> you complain about having to learn a new tool?
Yes, I can learn *BSD if I choose to do it, and I already have some
insight into non-GNU implementations of various tools. I'd rather
stay with Linux, but you're quite right, no one is forcing me to
That said, I'm not as vehemently opposed to systemd on end-user
machines, so I might stay with Linux laptops and move to a BSD for
Also, I can't deny the good points Greg has made, because I'm a mere
admin/enduser. I am fairly familiar with the cruft that comprises
Slackware init scripts, so I am sure that Better Ways exist.
> bah humbug,
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