[linux-elitists] No results found for "social justice growth hacking".

Ruben Safir ruben at mrbrklyn.com
Wed Feb 11 23:01:15 PST 2015

On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:54:19PM -0800, Don Marti wrote:
> begin Teh Entar-Nick quotation of Sat, Feb 07, 2015 at 09:40:29PM +0000:
> > Don Marti:
> > > So where is the next generation coming from? What's going to be the
> > > "holy shit, all those new people are running THAT?" platform?
> > 
> > I don't know, but I can tell you that the competition right now seems to
> > be JavaScript in various forms.
> > 
> > People may be writing fancy new back-end server stacks on dragonfly bsd
> > docker images using haskell or clojure or whatever, but by and large all
> > of that mess is a delivery mechanism for large blobs of minified
> > proprietary JavaScript.
> Meteor looks promising...
>   https://www.meteor.com/about
> ...yes, it's a big hairy JavaScript thing, and the
> sites it produces aren't exactly crawlable...
>   http://www.manuel-schoebel.com/blog/meteor-and-seo
> ...but it's Free (MIT licensed).
> > And we've lost the communication edge as well.  Ten years ago people
> > still actually used e-mail, and sometimes even a mom-and-pop server.
> > These days email is just an old-fashioned term for gmail, and the
> > interoperability has a future only slightly less dismal than the
> > privacy.
> > 
> > Tech-savvy people I trust are leaving IRC for whatever Google
> > Chat-Hangout thing is hip these days, and it's reminding me of that
> > period in the early 1990s when I clung to local BBSes because I found
> > the Internet so vast and impersonal.  These days I find IRC networks
> > run by friends and co-conspirators far less corporate and spooky than
> > anything out there.  Boy was Jabber ever a failure!
> (Where do people go to shoot the shit on the Internet
> any more?  Things have gotten silent.  Did too many
> people split up and go to Google Plus, or Myspace,
> or Twitter, or whatever, while enough others are
> opposed on principle to any given proprietary network
> that no actual conversation about random stuff can
> get started?  We need some kind of off-topic list,
> like, you know, what was that one list?)



It is more than a generational thing being lost here, though.  I feel
that I spent 20 years fighting the communications and intellectual
"property' war knowing that the next generation would be shaped by that
effort, and that I lost in a collosal way..

These kids are so stupid that they actually THINK that it is ok for
google to track their every waking move and communication and my school
thinks gmail is more secure mail than panix or my own mail server.

The core freedom in digital communications is the ability to SERVER...
to server your own mail... to server your own web services ...to service
your own communication channels, and this has been ripped out of their

I imagined that everyone would have their own webserver and mail server
and instead we have facebook and gmail.  Somewhere there has been a
terrible wrong turn and it is our fault.  This has not been articulated
clarly enough,

it is 2015 and it is still a nerdy thing to run your own web server...

God help us when a real AI is ready to move in on us... we have no


> >     So I think we need another moon-shot GNU project, but reaching further.
> > 
> > We need APIs that from the start fit the model of what people are
> > developing today.  I can't tell you how frustrating it is that PyGame
> > took decades before "Just multiply your movement by dt" became the norm.
> > Everyone did all kinds of horrible pointless framerate hacks!  We need
> > to copy the best interfaces, and support The Clean Architecture in
> > nearly everything (just as Unix pipes did!).
> I'm down for a super-clean, non-annoying platform for
> all things.
> The catch is that there are n different platforms
> all doing some things right, and all fighting over
> the same n(1+ε) "usual suspects" developers.
> That's where SJGH comes in -- get the excluded masses
> on board, and even a non-clean toolkit can win.  (Look
> at PHP vs. "real" languages.  Elitists complain about
> PHP, but it did do some of the kind of including the
> excluded that has to happen on a larger scale.
> > We also need better communication channels and tools.  We need something
> > that can take over from the snapchats and facebooks and such, but treat
> > the user with respect.  There needs to be privacy as a default, and the
> > ability to host the streams yourself.  
> Or on a $5/mo VPS, or the "free developer evaluation"
> PaaS that you can get some company to give you.
> > But we also need better protection from harassment.  Right now the only
> > way we've worked out how to solve this is centralised moderation,
> > Metafilter-style.  We need to work out how to make a system where if a
> > socially vulnerable under-represented youth starts thinking maybe it
> > would be worthwhile to develop Free Software, that participation is easy
> > without stepping in flame wars or suffering under hails of sadistic
> > abuse from privileged jerks.
> How about a web of trust?  Under-represented youth
> connects to one person f2f, then can participate on a
> list that includes that person's trusted contacts out
> to a certain degree?
> Twitter and Facebook have harassment problems too.
> The one advantage that the free software side has
> is that we can require more on the client side.
> Not too much, because of what's available to the
> under-represented youth, but more than a service
> run by a company whose stock moves based on monthly
> average users.
> > The closest system I can come up with is the Sugar project from
> > SugarLabs (who took over the software side from the OLPC project when
> > the latter went off into "Green Android tablet with Proprietary Branded
> > Content" tail-spins).  The code was ahead of its time a decade ago, and
> > now is a little passé but still very nice.  Some inspiration to draw
> > from, there, but we need to be more radical.
> Yes, or Non-Free "platform evangelists" will get to the
> excluded potential contributors before our side does.
> -- 
> Don Marti                    
> http://zgp.org/~dmarti/
> dmarti at zgp.org
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