[linux-elitists] How about a fork of Jessie without systemd?

Marc MERLIN marc at merlins.org
Mon Aug 3 08:04:18 PDT 2015

On Sun, Aug 02, 2015 at 09:35:19PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Marc MERLIN (marc at merlins.org):
> > It's not that simple.
> > Many new packages will just not install because even though they don't
> > depend on systemd, they pick up systemd as a dep through automatic
> > dependency generation.
> I'm guessing you mean the sysadmin requested package A, A has a Depends
> for package B, B has a Depends for package systemd (or some longer but
> similar chain that reaches systemd).  Correct?

> Jessie x86_64 currently has:
> Depends on 'systemd-shim' but not systemd:  1  (init-select)
> Depends on 'systemd-shim | systemd-sysv' but not systemd:  1 (xfce4-session)
> Depends on 'netbase | systemd-sysv' but not systemd:  1 (gpsd)
> Depends on 'systemd-sysv' but not systemd:  1 (systemd-cron)
> Depends on 'systemd-ui' but not systemd:  1 (systemd-gui)
> Depends on 'systemd | consolekit':  2 (mate-power-manager, solaar)
> Depends on 'systemd | sysvinit':  1 (libguestfs0)
> Depends on 'tmpreaper | systemd':  1 (sogo)
> Depends on 'lsb-base | systemd':  1 (ligthttpd)
> Depends on 'consolekit | upower | systemd':  1 (lxsession)
> Depends on 'systemd' (with or without version qualfiers):  14

Well, my system currently says:
sudo apt-get remove systemd
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  libpam-systemd network-manager network-manager-gnome systemd

> 14 on my non-GNOME, non-NetworkManager systems.[1]  I trust you're not
> talking about Recommends, as automatic installation of Recommends
> packages can be readily suppressed via lines like these in
> /etc/apt.con.d/* :
> APT::Install-Recommends "0";
> APT::Install-Suggests "0";

Indeed. I already turned that off:
/etc/apt/apt.conf:APT::Install-Recommends "false";

> [1] Closest to problematic in that regard, it seems to me, as
> libpam-systemd.  Here are the packages that depend on that package:
> gdm3, gnome-bluetooth, gnome-settings-daemon, network-manager,
> policykit-1, udisks2, wmshutdown.  (Package lightdm requires either
> libpam-systemd or consolekit.)  No surprise that GNOME and
> NetworkManager are horrendous dependency hairballs, but that's an
> obvious cue for the 'Doctor, it _hurts_ when I do this!' joke.

There you go.
Stuff depends on libpam-systemd and it depends on systemd.

I agree that networkmanager has "issues" as I mentioned in my previous post.

e19 recommends connman. I'm not sure what it's worth today.

wicd also didn't quite do what I needed (*) at the time last I looked at it,
but it's been several years since I last tried, so I can look again

(*) missing at the time:
- networking via bluetooth through my phone
- networking via usb tethering through my phone

I'm hopeful those work now.

And just to be clear, I don't actually have an agenda against systemd, I
just have very customized systems where upgrading to systemd is guaranteed
to break stuff and cost me a lot of time to switch, so I'm not in a hurry to
do this.
Having systemd on a new fresh install and migrate will be a lot easier, but
that again, is work for me and I'm not in a hurry since I have other things
to do.

"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/  

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