[linux-elitists] How about a fork of Jessie without systemd?

Rick Moen rick at linuxmafia.com
Mon Aug 3 00:27:03 PDT 2015

Quoting Greg KH (greg at kroah.com):

[unifying, blah blah]

You mean documented, stable interfaces as in uselessd, right?  ;->
Because, systemd itself has been actually a prime example of churn,
and a really dreadful example of stability.

> The "fun" thing about the whole Debian mess I always found was that most
> of the interfaces, and standards that systemd implemented came directly
> from Debian, so in fact, all old-time Debian admins should feel more at
> home on Fedora, openSUSE, and everyone else.

ISTR that the crisis arose because of a build decision for the gdm3
package, where the Debian developers suddenly decided that the gdm3
package was going to have a Depends declaration requring systemd to
ensure that the systemd-logind daemon would be present.  

And why would systemd-logind need be present just so an X11 display
manager could function?  Because the GNOME Project, in its great wisdom,
had decided that logging in shall require not _just_ logging in but also
'seat' state data to support a weird Freedesktop.org-specific user model
-- and Consolekit had heretofore provided that API but, in accordance
with the frequent churn of typical Freedesktop.org projects, was now
essentially orphaned and deprecated (and ConsoleKit2 might eventually
get created but didn't exist yet).

Thus, gdm on Debian would start requiring systemd, and because GNOME
was/is the standard default DE on Debian, that meant Debian had to start
requiring systemd.  Everyone got dragged along by the code churn of some
GNOME jackasses.

Except, of course, the many of us whose reaction was 'Hmm, graduitous 
dependency drama or no GNOME?  Right then, Column B it is.'

> If an operating system does not change, it is dead.

And that's why everyone loved HAL and devfs, you may remember.  ;->

(Good luck getting sysadmins to consider systemd-journald binary
logfiles a good idea just because an OS 'needs to change'.)

Cheers,                                 Atque memento, nulli adsunt Romanorum 
Rick Moen                               qui locutionem tuam corrigant.
rick at linuxmafia.com 
McQ! (4x80) 

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