[linux-elitists] How about a fork of Jessie without systemd?

Rick Moen rick at linuxmafia.com
Sun Aug 2 22:21:53 PDT 2015

Quoting Ruben Safir (ruben at mrbrklyn.com):

> I'm not a debian user so i can't speak for the system specifically but
> in general, it is likely easier to make packages for different kernels
> than to make non-systemd packages from a systemd centric platform, and
> it will be this way in the future.

You are wildly hand-waving without any data whatsoever.  Admittedly,
this is a lot easier than thinking, but please see my posting in this
thread in response to Marc where I did the needed homework about the
current state of dependencies on package 'systemd' within Debian 8.0
Jessie (x86_64).

Clue:  Those data fail to support your claim.  The Linneus Bottomus:

1.  Several GNOME packages depend on libpam-systemd, and thus systemd.
2.  gdm3 (came from GNOME) depends on libpam-systemd, and thus systemd.
3.  lightdm (came from GNOME) depends on libpam-systemd or consolekit.
4.  NetworkManager (came from GNOME) depends on libpam-systemd, and thus systemd.

And that's just about it.  Avoid dropping the GNOME or NetworkManager
hammers on your foot, and your Debian Jessie system does not become a
'systemd-centric platform'.  

Yes, the default Jessie installer supplies systemd.  Two obvious apt-get
commands -- install a different init, remove systemd -- and it's gone.
Other '...and stay out!' measures like Thorsten Glazer's prevent-* 
packages and this /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd file can be added, but
aren't really necessary:

Package: systemd
Pin: origin ""
Pin-Priority: -1

> It is a stated goal of systemd developers that all linux distros will
> look and act exactly the same way.

And that plus $2.25 will get you a ride on SF Muni.  I wish them joy of
their occasional Bond-villain ranticles, but that has nothing to do with
real systems.

> and if you think ifconfig is depecated, just see how bad rsyslog and
> family will look in a few years.

Right, let's make this interesting:  I am offering to wager US $100 that
packages for _both_ rsyslog (or a similar successor) _and_ syslog-ng (or
a similar successor) will still be trivially installable on Debian,
usable on Debian, and developer-maintained on August 2, 2018.  If you're
confident of what you say, this will be easy money for you.  For my
part, on the basis of professional experience as a senior sysadmin, I'm
confident you're profoundly mistaken, and am willing to take your money.

Wager offer is extended for 48 hours from the timestamp on this posting,
and you'll need to indicate acceptance on this mailing list.  (In the
event of dispute about the state of affairs on August 2, 2018, we'll
defer to Mr. Don Marti's judgement if he's willing.)

> Can someone tell me how many debian packages are no depend on systemd
> as a requesist?

¿Qué significa esta palabra 'requesist'?  No creo que significa lo que
usted piensa que significa.

All of that rhetoric, and you explicitly admit you have _no_ data.  

See my posting to this thread for actual data.  And there are currently
about 44000 packages in Debian 8.0 Jessie for x86_64 (main + contrib +

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