[linux-elitists] Re: H1-B

billy@damaged-world.net billy@damaged-world.net
Thu Feb 20 01:14:03 PST 2003

On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 11:08:11AM +0200, Bulent Murtezaoglu wrote:
> >>>>> "KMS" == Karsten M Self <kmself@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> [...]
>     KMS> Whether it surprises you or not, that's actually pretty close
>     KMS> to my argument.  Compete.  But on equal terms.  
> How will this be possible? I'm asking mostly out of ignorance.
> Especially the 'equal terms' bit.  International competition usually
> has a large element of inequality even for pure labor.  Legal/tax
> overhead is different, standards of living are different etc. etc.

	For me at least the idea is that the best and brightest come
	here, and if their original countries want to keep them, they'll
	re-arrange to suit. 

>     KMS> And clean up
>     KMS> after the mess if you're stuck with a bunch of bodies, don't
>     KMS> just ship 'em back where they came from.
> I think the "open up the borders, let 'em compete" approach might have
> been at least tenable had the US had a more liberitarian sort of
> employment/taxation/SS system.  Barring that, the moment someone steps

 	Employment system? Well, of course. Open borders means just

	Taxation? Not a factor. 

	But yes, you've got to get rid of welfare and the idiotic idea
	that transfer payments are somehow equitable or even a good

> on a payroll, several issues arise that necessitate breaking the
> equality aim.  Taking responsibility for people who come over and
> find themselves in non-viable conditions creates more issues.  They

	I'll take responsibility for myself and my family. 

	My maternal grandfather immigrated from Italy and dug ditches. 

	My paternal grandfather immigrated from Albania and washed pots
	and pans. 

	If the borders are open, no one has to "take responsibility" for
	anyone. If the job sucks, they can walk. 

	Open borders means open borders. We take all comers who can find
	a job.  Hell, we'll take them even if they can't, but they'll starve. 

Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits
is, of course, in a state of sin.
-- John von Neumann, 1951

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