[linux-elitists] Take back the net. CSS for the user

Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com
Sun Dec 9 01:26:49 PST 2001

begin Ruben Safir quotation:
> Hello Rick


> I have yet to meet anyone who wants this.

Increment your count by one:  You've met me.

> And I like my Grandmother as she is (as will you when you meet her).

I'm sure I will.  Especially if she can do the sort of delicious latkes
that clog one's arteries right up so one dies happy, which I suspect is 
the case.

> It's not impossible to get near exact precision on text and graphics.
> These things are definable.  I try to write pages that flex due to the
> standards, but ultimately there is AWALYS the question of how it lays
> out.  Other than simple text, how many pages would work through a
> 200PX by 200PX window.

Out of curiosity, I just checked, and mine do pretty well, even without
autoloading of images disabled.  One of these days, I'll have to
cross-check on my PalmPilot using the Plucker utility.

> I  remeber these issues coming up before WYSWIG page layout programs, 
> especialy with graphics print work.  It's true that you never get the 
> colors exact, and half tones play havoc with the printed presentation.  
> But these issues have been slowly minimized.
> With Browsers they are COMPLETELY broken.  And it's the standard which
> is the problem.

I honestly don't think so:  The problem is that you simply cannot do 
graphical design with Web pages, because you cannot know what the 
browser can and will do.  Which is inherent in the model of
communication in question, and shouldn't have surprised anyone.

Therefore, I think it's quixotic to give Web designers better tools to 
pretend to do page layout:  It won't work.  It can't work.  I think it
would be healthier to spend the same amount of energy making sure Web 
designers all get copies of http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/opti.html , and
beat them with it until they get the point.

But until they do, many of us will be obliged to apply the sort of blunt
tool Karsten described, to clean up their messes and force HTML to
comply with our local needs.

> Will you be in town in January?

I certainly hope I can be, but I'm still unsure how the family finances
will support that.  (It would have to be out of my own pocket.)

"Is it not the beauty of an asynchronous form of discussion that one can go and 
make cups of tea, floss the cat, fluff the geraniums, open the kitchen window 
and scream out it with operatic force, volume, and decorum, and then return to 
the vexed glowing letters calmer of mind and soul?" -- The Cube, forum3000.org

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