[linux-elitists] random questions

Jay Sulzberger jays@panix.com
Thu Dec 6 14:32:10 PST 2001


On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Jay Sulzberger wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Don Marti wrote:
>
> > begin Rick Moen quotation of Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 01:03:55PM -0800:
> >
> > > Congratulations.  May I drive over and reinstall your printer drivers
> > > for you?
> >
> > The printer is working fine, but I'll put on a pot of coffee
> > for you when it's time to upgrade to a journaling filesystem on
> > capsicum.zgp.org.  Mandrake is all ga-ga for XFS, SuSE is ReiserFS
> > from way back, and Red Hat wants to slip ext3 in underneath an
> > upgrade.  They all seem to have their good points.
>
> Reiser is not a journaling file system.
>
> oo--JS.

>From Hans Reiser:

----- Forwarded message from Jay Sulzberger <jays> -----

Subject: Linux-kernel mailing list archive 2001-39,: Re: ReiserFS data corruption in very simple configuration
X-URL: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/linux/linux-kernel/2001-39/0247.html


           Re: ReiserFS data corruption in very simple configuration

   Hans Reiser (reiser@namesys.com)
   Mon, 01 Oct 2001 19:27:31 +0400

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     _________________________________________________________________

   This is the meaning of metadata journaling: that writes in progress at
   the time
   of the crash may write garbage, but you won't need to fsck. You can
   get this
   behaviour with other filesystems like FFS also. If you cannot accept
   those
   terms of service, you might use ext3 with data journaling on, but then
   your
   performance will be far worse. It is a tradeoff, not a bug. Regarding
   where to
   email these types of reiserfs questions, you might email
   reiserfs-list@namesys.com with such questions, or try
   www.namesys.com/support.html if you want paid support service on it.

   Best,

   Hans

   foner-reiserfs@media.mit.edu wrote:
   >
   > [Please CC me on any replies; I'm not on linux-kernel.]
   >
   > The ReiserFS that comes with both Mandrake 7.2 and 8.0 has
   > demonstrated a serious data corruption problem, and I'd like
   > to know (a) if anyone else has seen this, (b) how to avoid it,
   > and (c) how to determine how badly I've been bitten.
   >
   > My configuration in each case has been an AMD CPU running ReiserFS
   > exactly as configured "out of the box" by running the Mandrake 7.2
   or
   > 8.0 installation CD and opting to run ReiserFS instead of the
   default.
   > This is a uniprocessor machine with one IDE 80GB Maxtor disk---no
   RAID
   > or anything fancy like that. The hardware itself is rock solid and
   > has never demonstrated any faults at all. (MDK 8.0 appears to use
   > RSFS 3.6.25; I'm not longer running MDK 7.2, so I can't check that.)
   > The machine had barely been used before each corruption problem; I'm
   > not running some strange root-priv stuff, and each time, the FS
   hadn't
   > had more than a few minutes to a few hours of use since being
   created.
   >
   > In each case, I've gotten in trouble by editing my XF86Config-4
   file,
   > guessing wrong on a modeline, hanging X (blank gray screen & no
   > response to anything), and being forced to hit the reset button
   > because nothing else worked. Under 7.2, I discovered that my
   > XF86Config-4 file suddenly had a block of nulls in it. That time, I
   > thought I must have been hallucinating, but I ran a background job
   to
   > sync the filesystem every second while continuing to debug the X
   > problems, and didn't see the corruption again.
   >
   > Now, I was just bitten by the -same- behavior under MDK 8.0. After
   > accidentally hanging X, I waited a few seconds just in case a sync
   was
   > pending, hit reset, and had all sorts of lossage:
   > (1) Parts of the XF86Conf-4 file had lines garbled, e.g.,
   > sections of the file had apparently been rearranged.
   > (2) /var/log/XFree86.0.log was truncated, and maybe garbled.
   > (2) Logging in as root was fine, but then logging in as myself
   > I got "Last login: <4-5 lines of my XFree86.0.log file (!)>"
   > instead of a date! Logging in again gave me the proper
   > last-login time, but clearly wtmp or something else had
   > gotten stepped on in some weird way.
   > Obviously, the behavior I saw once under MDK 7.2 was no
   hallucination
   > or accidental yank in Emacs.
   >
   > I thought the whole point of a journalling file system was to
   > -prevent- corruption due to an unexpected failure! This seems to be
   > -far- worse than a normal filesystem---ext2fs would at least choke
   and
   > force fsck to be run, which might actually fix the problem, but this
   > is ridiculous---it just silently trashes random files.
   >
   > So I now have possibly-undetected filesystem damage. My -guess- is
   > that only files written within a few minutes of the reset are likely
   > to be affected, but I really don't know, and don't know of a good
   way
   > to find out. Must I reinstall the OS -again-, starting from a blank
   > partition, to be sure? Maybe I should just give up on ReiserFS
   completely.
   >
   > [If there is a more-appropriate place for me to send this---such as
   > a particular Mandrake list, or a particular ReiserFS list---please
   let
   > me know, particularly if I can get a quick answer -without- going
   > through the overhead of subscribing to the list, being flooded, and
   > unsubscribing---that's what archives are for. Some websearching
   > for "ReiserFS corruption" yielded -thousands- of hits---not a good
   > sign---and a very large proportion of them were on this list, so I
   > figure this is as good a place to ask as any. Thanks again.]
   > -
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     _________________________________________________________________

     * Next message: Nathan Straz: "Re: [LTP] growfiles and other
       processes in "ps aux" STAT D"
     * Previous message: Steven Timm: "Re: DMA problem (?) w/2.4.6-xfs
       and ServerWorks OSB4 Chipset"

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